Rss Feed

Obedient Wives Club Debate

July 7, 2011 by admin

Spent really long listening to the podcast by @BFMradio regarding the Obedient Wives Club. I chuckled so many times at certain parts. I would love to type the whole transcript if I could but there are some parts that I just can’t miss. Please download the podcast here if you find this delightful to know, at the BFM Radio station!
Or you can just click HERE.
.
For those who has no idea waht the Obedient Wives Club is, its basically this.
“….to curb social ills by offering sex lessons to help pious Muslim women “serve their husbands better than a first-class prostitute”.
.
I see that there are alot of mixed reactions when it comes to OWC, but I am definitely in Scratch Head + Gasp team because I find ALL their arguments unfounded and just miserably #fail. The only good thing about OWC, as of now to me, is just that its an option – and only those who believe in it will be in the “club”. My, if being in OWC was going to define what all Malaysians are going to be – I’m most probably just going to give up my patriotism and just hide in turtle house pfft.
.
So BFM Radio (89.9) actually did a really good job by daring to take a step up and opening up to topics that had to come with religion, politics and sex. Both invited parties. namely the Obedient Wives Club and the Sisters In Islam (who were apparently put in different rooms, thankfully!) were representing their own organisations, speaking out on their stands on the issue.
.
Marina Mahathir, one of my favored figures in Malaysia (not just because i liked Mahathir okay!) represented Sisters in Islam and I thought her arguments were very relevant and realistic. I would have to say that many a times they were just general opinion, not strong debate bullet points to pin OWC to a speechless moment, but hey – such general opinions were enough to clear questions that had been popping up in our heads ever since OWC was plasted infront of the nations papers! You see, the word “Obedient” wasn’t a mistake by the club. They WANT it to be there.
.
For those who heard the broadcast or even streamed/download it – here are some interesting points that I have extracted from the podcast! I am in no stand to say which is wrong or right, but I do obviously know which sides I would be taking when it comes to this.  Separated their random statements in categories, and also compiled a few heated arguments under another column.
.
Yes, I typed while I listened to the thing. It was too funny not to write down!
.
My opinions are in brown.
.
Obedient Wives Club
  • “Obedient doesn’t mean you have to be a servant to a men, or to obey them, or to do things against norms. Obedience is synonymous to be acceptable –  even though they are being victimised at home. All the domestic violence is caused by the misundertanding of the word obedience

I don’t quite understand this part.

  • “Equality in marriage – God made Adam first, female was only from a fraction of the rib of Adam. To say that we are equal, its not true.”

Excuse me, I thought you were talking about the Quran when it comes to OWC? How come you take things from the Bible now. And I wouldn’t know better, but Marina and another gentleman in the studio did mention that the Quran had stated nothing like that. Nothing about women being a fraction of men. Can somebody please proof this? Is Azlina or Marina right?

  • “In a marriage, there should be a leader and there should be a follower”

Personally, I would believe there should be a leader – but remember, a good leader is a person who can drive the whole team and not just giving orders and expecting people to obey them. That’s an authoritative leader. So Azlina, what kind of leader should a husband be? Because if you are not talking about being an authoritative leader, then it means the wife and the rest of the family do deserve to have a say. Kurt Lewin developed like three styles of leadership, namely the Authoritarian Leadership, Participative Leadership and Laissez-Faire. Can  you please define which category of leadership the leader must fall into? And does it say that the leaders have to be the husband? Even if there is such a statement, must the people who the leader is leading be seen a follower? Are all acquaintances followers? A leader is there to guide, to find ways – but followers are slaves – and if it isn’t the autoritative leadership we are talking about- there is no reason for such compliance.

Sisters in Islam

  • “In Islam, sex doesn’t ask you to harm yourself and harm future generations as well. So it cannot be such an overwhelming thing. Obedience always means someone is less than the other. And marriage should be an equal partnership –  mutual care, mutual respect, and its not one person having to be ordered around by the other all the time.
  • “We are different, but that doesn’t mean we are less”
  • “In the context of Islam, the role of a women – the Quran says that women should be companions to men and men companions to women. One should be helping the other to gain virtue – to try and please God. To try and attain happiness”
  • Even though the husband is the leader in the family, it doesnt mean that the wife does not have a say. It’s all mutual interest.

Argument

Marina: “Really, u r a lesser person?”

Az: “I do not mind admitting it”

Marion: U r a lesser person?”

Az: “What does a lesser person mean?”

Marina: “Really, u r a lesser person?”

Az: “I do not mind admitting it”

Marion: U r a lesser person?”

Az: “What does a lesser person mean?”

Seems to be that Azlina has the impression that she is being really courageous in admitting her “lesser person” status in her relationship with her husband. “I do not mind admitting it”.

Just by saying “Do Not Mind”, doesn’t that kind of mean that you see it as something you should have “mind”. Or is it just me?

Seeing how she quickly admits it without hesitation truly exhibits how she is super obedient and loyal to her husband (to which I have no questons or comments about). So setia kepada husbad ^^

The problem, to me, here is that if she is so sure that she IS the lesser person – what difference would it make, for her to question Marina what does a lesser peron mean – only after she has strongly admitted to being one? Does it matter? You can be lesser in many ways because you have already clearly DEFINED wives as the “lesser person”.

I don’t know lah, its just hilarious how you are only asking for a definition of something after u answered pfft especially on radio.

___________________________________________________

Marina : Have you met any women who have been abused?

Azlina : Yes I have patients

Marina : Right. And is it their fault, or their husbands fault?

Azlina : Both men and wife have to be obedient to God. Okay? They have to be. If in physical abuse, there are option for you. You could have asked for divorce in certain cases.

Marina : Like what cases?

Azlina : If a men abuses you.

.

.

Did Azlina answer Marina’s question here? Azlina keeps mentioning that there are other channels for the wives to go to if they are undergoing obstacles with their husbands. But I thought you say they should always be obedient? Just the idea of consulting other channels when there is a problem, shows that you are not really quite being very obedient, no?

Just in my opinion, it kind of seems to me that Azlina think that there isn’t alot of abuse going on now and that most probably 80% of all households are happy – because of sexual pleasures that wives “perform” and the obedience they show to thier husbands. Really? You really think everyone is happy? Did I perceive the conversation wrongly or did you really kind of mean that it isn’t wrong for husabnds to abuse thier wives, because they are not pleasuring them enough and just by not pleasuring them enough, the wives are disobeying God.

So…apa husband buat pun tak salah because wife not giving? So does this mean, to you God wants wife to pleasure husband willingly and happily anytime of the day even after abuse? Please explain further!

#sratch head

___________________________________________________

Marina : Okay, under what circumstances don’t you have to be obedient?

Azlina : Say for an example okay, come to sexual intercourse – you can’t sodomise your wife and you can’t have it during your period – that’s it.

Marina : What if you don’t feel like it?

Azlina : What if you dont feel like it? You still perform!

Marina : Really?

Azlina : Yes.

Marina : And you do that?

Azlina : Yes!

Marina : Wow.

Azlina : Because you see, I do it not for my husband. If I can’t do this I wouldnt be able to die and give my life for Islam.

Mahathir : So even if you don’t feel like it, you have a headache – you would still do it?

Azlina : Yes I would.

.

.

Ohai. I haz wan perform well today. Will get award if I good? ^^

All I have to say is, Azlina’s husband must be a really satisifed husband because she’s so loyal to him.

But wait, the Obedience Wives Club is to like teach women how to keep thier husbands satisfied and happy (apparently to the will of God) so that they won’t succumb to things like prostitutions or things like that right? So this leads to the meaning that OWC is kind of diagreeing to the idea of a man having many women and are trying to fix it with OWC, fair enought?

But during broadcase, Azlina is heard saying (if by no mistake!) her husband has three wives. And she is the first! So does this mean only after two wives she has come to realisation that she must be OWC-fied?

Oh wait, somewhere in the middle she says she’s really  understanding to the fact that her husband may need more wives.

#scratch head.


________________________________________________________

Marina : What does a leadership mean anyway? Is it the person who earns more?

Anonymous : “The divorce rates over the years have increased. What are the reasons behind such of these high rates and especially within the Malay Muslim Community”

Marina : Because there are too many marriages. As simple as that. Because alot of people are getting married when they are really not prepared for it. People who are way too young are getting married, trouble is alot of people think of it as a way of legitimising sex. Marriage is a bigger responsibility, that needs to be worked out.

___________________________________________________________

Marina : Do you agree on that? That men marry women to legitimise sex?

Azlina : Basically, yes!

Marine : Really?!

Azlina : If you want somebody to cook, somebody to look after you – you can hire a maid

Marina : *Deep gasp* I think you are hanging yourself here.

So………you are kind of degrading both women AND men here by generalising things.

1) Women are married into the family just because husband don’t wanna be seen as raper. It’s like the wedding certificate is a legal approval of sex. 8D

2) All men do not love their wives enough to just want to spend the rest of their time with them. All the think about is getting kinky. Men, why you all has laidis? You see, now Azlina show your true kalar to us ^^ Tenkiu

__________________________________________________________

Marina : “So he wants to buy a little sports car, but you want a bigger car to drive the kids around. Then you got that little sports car, cause that’s what he wants?

Azlina : Discuss it with him! Im sure everybody’s husband is open for dicussion. If he thinks you makes sense, fine – go ahead! But if he says I still want my sports car –  then go with it!

Marina : Really? Even if he makes no sense at all?

Azlina : To him, it makes sense.

Marina : But for the family they have to suffer?

Azlina : Who says? Buy another car!

Marina : WOW! You mean everybody would have the money to buy two cars?

Azlina : You said sports car. If he can afford a sports car, he can afford another family car.

Dear Azlina, what if you only had a certain amount of money allocated for a car. If that money is used for the sports car, obvious there would be none left for the family car. And if they family had so much money to even buy that many cars, the discussion would have been invalid and unnecessary because he would not even need to ask what kind of car is advisable for the family!

Just by that “Buy another car!” statement kind of alludes that you assume everybody is quite rich, and doesn’t that kind of narrow down the various categorise of people in society that you meet? Might be quite an unfair judgement for me to make, but…

_________________________________________________________________

#abrupt ending.

.

.

Just like the broadcast LOL.

.

.

Anyways, I don’t know what to think of the whole session but it was quite enlightening to see opinions can vary :) True what Azlina had said at one point, she said “Who is to decide which is wise?” – but not to her context – just the statement itself IS quite true.

So, wrong or right – who is to decide?

LOL. Goodnight!


12 Comments »

  1. Tan Yee Hou says:

    From my limited understanding, Abrahamic religions (ham par lum Christianity, Islam and Judaism) share the same concept of Adam and Eve.

    IINM Gabriel is shared across the board too.

  2. bryanlyt says:

    wah damn best, can submit as uni assignment edi lolol.

  3. Tan Yee Hou says:

    Oh another bit I like is the “too many people are getting married” bit, about legitimising sex.

    My friend brought this topic up… a casual observation shows that staunch Christians tend to get married younger than others, and perhaps this might to start having sex.

    This might provoke some people but… similarly, us seeing Malays getting married starting as young as 18 is hardly a surprising thing anymore. “Ahh normal lah”

  4. GIn says:

    yeah. what yee hou said. hahaha. i open to type this den i read this comment =X but i answer the rest according to ure post segregation.

    i didnt really listen but..

    the lesser person thing. i think azlina misunderstood lesser person. i think she meant something like u have to be a bigger person to be more accepting of yahde yahde yahde.

    and the thing abt abuse. she said they have options. in beginning u posted what she said abt ppl misunderstanding the word obedience in the club. how it doesnt mean u have to obey …. blah blah

    um..well..pent of sexuality not satisfied really does cause quite some harm. just saying =p next time u know. la la la.

    and going to prostitution lying behind the wife n having multiple wife with the 1st wife knowledge is diff in a way i guess. some ppl are just more accepting of one thing to another. if husband is happy he is still good to u although got multiple wife. ie. maybe provide care (depends on what u need form the guy) the husband who is not happy den gets pissed off abuses ignored neglects all. so some would rather have the former den the latter even if it means sharing with other women. i have honestly met first wives who were fine with the second wives and even said rship with husband got better.

    this is neutral ginny speaking. haha. =p just cuz im like that. like to find the basis of both sides. WTF

  5. [...] If you want to get a detailed blow-by-blow it can be found at http://www.thenatstory.com [...]

  6. admin says:

    Haha bottom line, Azlina is trying to say that wtv man does its womens fault. Listen to the podcast first.

  7. admin says:

    its not about first wives being accepting of extra wives, just how OWC direction contradicts with the practitioners lifestyle.

  8. admin says:

    I have a Christian friend who does see marriage as the only way to have sex. I mean, I don’t have a problem with that. It gives you the extra allowance and security mental wise to do it. But OWC…is…just seeing it as a SERVICE. Obligatory service.

  9. True Story about EVE says:

    To all christians… the story about eve might be wrong. She is actually Adam’s second wife (Made from his rib). Adam’s first wife was Lilith . She was made EQUAL to Adam and is the same as Adam compared to EVE. However,because she is equal to Adam she would not be subservient to him and ran away from Eden. This made GOD angry so he made EVE Adam’s second wife from his rib. ( There are many version about what Lilith actually is but her being Adam’s first wife is the most popular amongst all other)

  10. True Story about EVE says:

    Ugh and dont bring Kurt Levin into this… his theories of leadership is basically a ripoff of MAx Weber’s theories. He is more of a change management person rather than a leadership theory person

  11. admin says:

    True story about Eve : Oh really? Thats really enlightening to know @_@ Haha and about Kurt Levin, I’m just trying to magnify exactly what kind of leadership the lady was talking about. Because there are so many, and I just quoted Kurt’s theories as an example :)

  12. tedng says:

    Dear Dr Azlina,

    I want to convert to Muslim.
    and then I need your help to introduce me someone young and pretty and think like you.
    If you would divorce and marry me, it would be great.

    I want to marry 4 wives (you have no problem with that right?) .. my 4 wives would take care and bring up the children. Support the children financially.

    I get to keep my salary and go play golf couple of times a week.

    After golf, one wife shall give me a good massage (must obey me lah). One wife wash my feet (must obey me lah), one wife serve me beer (must obey me even if I disobey Allah.
    One wife getting ready to give me foreplay (foreplay is important mah) and give me sexual satisfaction.

    I promised I would not visit prostitute and I would not beat my wives.
    Just 4 of you take turn to serve me.. it is good enough.
    If 2 or more wives can give me sex at the same time, it would be great. If it is not halal, then it is fine.

    And when wife become too old to have sex with me, I divorce and marry a younger one.
    I promise I would have MAX of 4 wives at any one time.

    Terima Kasih.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>